Oksana Leslie: I was proud to have "tamed" an American.
The idea of marriage has been around for so long that it seems eternal to us. Relationships that end in weddings have been dominant for many years, but it seems that soon marriage will begin to lose its popularity. The question arises more frequently not about how to keep a family together, but why do it at all.
Oksana Leslie, a writer, realtor, and video blogger from Alabama, spoke about her past marriage many years later in our interview. Why is it sometimes okay and necessary to say "no" to the concept of "happily ever after"?
Oksana, you've had a tough journey in the USA. Now you hide nothing about yourself, your ex-husband, or your current one. Why do you share such personal details?
I was born in Uzbekistan and came to America at the age of 24, having lived here for as many years since. I can't say that on my YouTube channel I share the most personal details, because I don't see it as a diary where I should be like some bloggers who share everything, even details about which bra they buy. My channel has become more professional and entertainment-oriented. But writing a book is different. When you write a dramatic book about yourself, you have to be truthful so that people believe you. That's why we love reading other people's memoirs and autobiographies, because without some tragedy and drama, there's no interesting story. We need the "skeletons in the closet" so we can say, "Well, at least my life isn't like that, thank God!" One of my books, "America Mother Calls," is dedicated to the story we're about to discuss.
You've always wanted to go to America. Why America?
Yes, I did, because we watched the show "Santa Barbara". We thought everyone here had champagne in their bathtubs and everything was perfect. At that time, there was no Google or Skype, and we only had the information that came to us from the screen.
Your dream came true when you met an American. What was your impression of him?
I was introduced to the American by a friend who knew him personally. So, I wasn't writing to some stranger online; I already knew he was who he said he was. He was genuinely a programmer and not someone misleading young girls online, as sometimes happens.
He was a very attractive man (I later had very beautiful children with him). However, I had difficulty understanding him. When you're in a relationship with a foreigner and don't know the language well, you naturally don't always get what they're saying, especially their jokes. But honestly, I was envious of myself. I was proud that I had "tamed" an American!
At what point did something go wrong?
There were some minor red flags, but I initially didn't pay much attention to them. For instance, he could spend two days in a row playing video games and then ask me to call his boss to say he was sick. Or, for example, he informed me that he drove without a license because he had an accident in that red car that I saw him in in the photos. Moreover, he had that accident while being drunk. But I didn't pay attention to all this. We are now talking about events that happened 24 years ago; I was a completely different person back then. Only later did I realize that this man was very risky and unpredictable. I didn't know he already had bipolar disorder. There were times when everything was fine, and then, like on a rollercoaster, everything would go downhill. A year after our wedding, he started having health issues – first a heart attack, then appendicitis, and later he was diagnosed with Hepatitis C. I never had that fairy-tale experience that some women have when they marry Americans and go on cruises... For me, it was the opposite. Just as I was settling down, learned how to drive, and was about to establish a profession in America, I had to shuttle him to doctors and make a living, sometimes without days off. I wanted a prince on a white horse, but it turned out I became the "prince" myself. A young girl burdened with a pile of problems. I had to solve them while he could become withdrawn and not talk to anyone for a week. "I'm old and sick, leave me alone," he would say when I needed him to at least sit with the child while I went shopping.
But did he at least appreciate your efforts?
I don't think so. He rarely said something nice, but he could insult me. Hepatitis C affects the liver, so when someone takes pain or depression pills, they don't work because the liver doesn't metabolize them. Oxygen doesn't flow properly to the brain, resulting in something like encephalopathy, and the person becomes dull-witted, saying silly things. They "lose their mind", getting irritated no matter what you do. Plus, over time, as I delved into psychology, I realized he was a typical perverse narcissist.
Did the diseases only exacerbate the bad that was already in him?
Exactly. A man who didn't work, was a gambler, and didn't contribute a cent to the household would say, "I can take the kids and disappear in an unknown direction." He had delusions that I found someone else. At that time, I was a cleaning supervisor – and being a supervisor is terrible: you clean yourself and then check if others made mistakes (after everyone else has gone home). You come home exhausted, and he accuses you of having found someone else.
There was an instance when a policeman offered to take me to a shelter. My husband and I were moving to another city in two cars; I was in the back car with the child. My car had an accident and flipped over, but my husband kept driving, not even noticing. For the policeman, this was strange, or perhaps I looked like a victim of emotional abuse. He offered to take me either to a hotel or to a shelter. He said I could start a new life.
At what point did things go wrong?
There were some small warning signs, but I initially ignored them. For instance, he could play computer games for two days straight, and then tell me to call his boss and say he was sick. Or he told me he drove without a license because he had an accident in that red car I saw him with in photos. Moreover, he had this accident while drunk. But I ignored all these signs. We're talking about events from 24 years ago; I was a completely different person back then. Only later, over time, did I realize that this man was very risky, unpredictable. I didn't know he had bipolar disorder. There were times when everything was fine, and then, like a roller coaster, everything went downhill. A year after our wedding, he started having health issues – first a heart attack, then appendicitis, then he was diagnosed with hepatitis C. I never had what some women have, marrying Americans and going on cruises... For me, it was the opposite. As soon as I settled in, learned to drive, and before I even established a career in America, I had to take him to doctors and earn a living, sometimes without days off. I wanted a prince on a white horse, but it turned out that I became the "prince". A young girl burdened with a lot of problems. I had to deal with them while he could retreat and not talk to anyone for a week. 'I'm old and sick, leave me alone,' he would say when I just needed him to sit with our child while I went grocery shopping.
But did he at least appreciate your efforts?
I don't think so. He rarely said something nice, but he could insult me. Hepatitis C affects the liver, so when someone takes pain or depression pills, they don't work; the liver doesn't process them. Oxygen doesn't flow properly to the brain, causing something like encephalopathy, and the person becomes dull, saying silly things. He would "lose his mind", getting irritated by anything you did. Plus, over time, as I studied psychology, I realized he was a typical malignant narcissist.
So, his illnesses just worsened what was already bad in him?
Exactly. A man who didn't work, was a gambling addict, and didn't contribute financially would say, 'I can take the kids and disappear.' He imagined that I had found someone else. At that time, I was working as a cleaning supervisor – and being a supervisor is awful: you clean yourself, then check that others haven't messed up (after they've long gone home). You come home tired, and he accuses you of seeing someone else. There was an incident when a police officer offered to take me to a shelter. We were moving to another city in two cars, and I was in the back car with our child. My car got into an accident and flipped over, but my husband kept driving, not even noticing. For the police, it was strange, or maybe I looked like a victim of emotional abuse. He offered to take me either to a hotel or a shelter, saying I could start a new life.
Yes, I could have gotten a green card and left my husband. But I thought, we took our vows, 'in sickness and in health.' It would have been easier to leave a healthy person. But I felt like I was saving this man! I'm a peacemaker by nature! Imagine, I was even proud that he was sick, and I managed everything.
Your marriage ended tragically. What happened?
Towards the end, he became ungrateful and vile. When he beat our child with a belt until he was bruised, not realizing what he was doing, when he started putting out cigarettes on me, when he completely lost his mind, I left him. And then he shot himself. Not just like that: when the police arrived, he realized his whole family would know the truth about him – he was good at pretending, everyone thought he was perfect. But I reported him and got a restraining order. The police took him out of the house and said he could go anywhere, while the children and I stayed. But I packed: I had a bad feeling. He came back, and if we and the kids were still home, he would have shot us all.
But interestingly, in your new book "Don't Play the Fool, America!" there's a segment thanking this man after everything you've been through with him. Are you really grateful?
Yes, I am. Because I've become wiser. I came here as a naive girl – I came to take.
Now you're married to a Russian man, you have a joint venture, and it's pleasant to look at your family. Doesn't this suggest that our women are better off with our men?
With our men, it's easier because there's a common language. You'll find joy in the same things – holidays, food, jokes. With an American, it's harder. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. You can learn the language and get to know the culture.
Have you personally seen harmonious couples where the wife is Russian-speaking and the husband is American?
When we see someone's couple, we only see the facade. We don't know what's going on in their house, what problems they might have. I looked at divorce statistics by country, and the highest divorce rate, surprisingly, is in the Maldives. The USA is sixth. It doesn't even depend on the language. Many of those couples who got married early, at 20-25, get divorced. The reason is that priorities change. Those who marry after fifty divorce less often.
But often, even in a toxic marriage, women maintain the appearance of a perfect family. Why?
Because it's embarrassing! It's shameful to admit to oneself and to others. For example, my mother knew nothing; I didn't tell his relatives anything either. When you're in a toxic relationship, it seems like there's something wrong with you. You try to become better, so your partner approves of you. Especially if you have little experience, you tried to be a good girl for your parents, and now you're trying for a man. You want him to praise you. But now, of course, it's easier; many won't get into a situation like mine. There's the internet, lots of psychologists who will immediately say: this is a narcissist, a manipulator.
What main mistakes would you warn our girls against?
The main mistake is to relax and think that he is the prince on a horse. You need to immediately get an education, a profession, invest in your development. I invested in my husband for many years (and then in the second one in the same way: he didn't speak English, but we had to develop a business that he didn't want to develop). If your husband says, 'why do you need to study?', then he doesn't love you. He wants to make you dependent, and that's very scary – being dependent. My husband believed that even buying face cream for me was a frivolity.
It's very important to be able to stand your ground. I had many situations where I couldn't say: no, this won't happen! I can say that now. You shouldn't always agree with everything. You need to say 'no' more often.
